Episode 138 transcript:

I would like you to meet Anita Mamadou.

She is a member of the membership and now in level three cohort. Um, but Anita is also a number one international women's reproductive coach.

She helps birthing folks and their families take back their power from shame and their journey to and through parenthood and while educating birth pros on the importance of bereavement.

Um, she currently lives in Vegas, so she's a Las Vegas, um, resident. She's a birth and postpartum and bereavement doula, childbirth educator, doula, educator, and clinical professional counselor intern in Nevada.

She's also a mom of four. So kind of a hero to me, a bonus angel son, mom, through adoption to exam your, be a birth to Harper and to an angel baby Anita is also a military spouse and they own multiple businesses.

So I'm excited because even though Anita has been in the, so I went back to check and I realized that Anita, you first kind of officially stepped into my world in the course creation for doulas program last year in 2021.

And then you came into the membership this year and we hadn't had a lot of like private one-on-one conversation. You were in the membership and kind of hanging out, maybe watching replays, coming to some of the lives.

And then I, I think I put out the offer and let folks know that there was an opportunity to move into, add on like level two or level three to join this next round of our, our more intimate, private cohort, which for me, the key has been, um, private boxer support.

And that doesn't start until July, but we got in early, she got in early, so we've been starting to connect through Voxer, but this is the first time we've been one-on-one on zoom together.

And that I've really had a chance to get to know you more. So this will be my first time hearing your business birth story.

If you don't mind, I'm going to turn it over to you and share us more about what you, what brought you to this point and what got you into this world and all of that.

Yeah. So, um, I guess to go back to the beginning, I always wanted to be in the birth world. I was that kid at 10 years old, instead of watching the cartoons as watching a birth story or adoption story and all these things, and my parents were like, um, aren't you supposed to be outside playing?

Aren't you supposed to be watching cartoons? Why are you doing this? And so when I went to college, um, I went as a athlete.

I ran track and my undergrad and the coach knew I was supposed to go there for nursing. And once I got to school sign and was taking my classes, she was like, oh no, you have to pick either you're going to do nursing or you're going to stay with track.

And I was like, well, I'm already here. So I guess I'm just going to leave the nursing and pursue something different.

And maybe later down the road, I can get back on track. That didn't happen, unfortunately. Well, fortunately, and unfortunately, you know, when I was done, I tried to apply to the graduate schools.

It didn't work out for me, but I was in the psychology field of helping kids and helping with the day treatment and things like that.

So I was like, okay, I'm already doing this. I made a goal that I had to be back in school a year after I was done.

So I ended up going to school to get my clinical, mental health counseling degree. And that's how I became a counselor.

Love it. I work with military spouses, those who are active duty, I enjoy it so much. I'm a military spouse.

So, you know, it came naturally and things like that, but it wasn't until I had my son do adoption, that I was like, um, something needs to change.

I love what I'm doing, but this is not where I'm supposed to be at. Meaning there's something more I have to do.

But, you know, I was just enjoying life, trying to understand being a new mom through adoption, trying to understand the postpartum, have it all balanced, having these businesses.

And then 2020 came and now you're pregnant with your daughter. That was a whirlwind, trying to help clients while I'm trying to navigate my own pregnancy and hormones and the world and everything that's going on.

And it came to me and it was like, yeah, no, you can't keep going like this. You have to change and go about things differently.

And that's how all of a sudden I saw in my private practice that I was attracting a lot more of moms.

I was moms who were, didn't know what to do, overwhelmed or those moms who are pregnant and have all these hormones and feelings feeling this guilt and not knowing what to do with it, or if this was normal, because nobody talks about it.

Or I was even getting those moms who experienced a loss and trying to navigate, okay, what does life now look like after loss all while I was still pregnant and trying to figure out everything else.

And once I had my daughter, I was like, there's more information out there. I need to get this information. And that's when I got into a course for becoming a doula and it was actually a bereavement doula.

I thought all doulas were the same. And going through that course and understanding my own parcel postpartum, along with the bereavement side, I was like, oh no, this is the path I'm supposed to be in.

I'm not supposed to be a midwife that I wanted to be. Because at the end of the day, the midwife didn't do the things I wanted to be able to do.

I wanted to able to support women and be there through their journey, start to finish. Yes, a midwife is there, but she wasn't there throughout my entire birth.

She came, you know, later down the road while a doula is able to be there, be that support for you.

You can call chat. Hey, I have this question, oh, this is not that in different things like that. And that's what got me to, okay, this is the path I'm supposed to go.

Then fast forward now. And to being in the online business school, the day you sat and you said, Hey, I have this, I'm opening this up.

I literally emailed you while you were saying that. I was like, ah, yeah, I need to do this. Let's get on this.

I need to be a part of this and things like that. And what attracted me to you and your program, because I've done a lot of other coaching and things like that, which I really enjoy has helped a lot, but it just wasn't aligning with my energy and the way I wanted to go about things, you know, the business world teaches you, Hey, this is who you work with.

Stick with that. And things like that. But I'm like, yeah, I love helping moms, but I also want to educate the doulas on things that they don't understand that can also help them help the other moms that I can't help and be able to spread that, you know, the love to everybody all around and yeah.

And then seeing how you were able to rebirth your business and rebrand it and open it up. I was like, oh yeah, this, this is where I'm supposed to be for sure.

Hmm. That's cool. That is so cool. I really liked too. What you said about you signed up for the bereavement Dilla training and you weren't sure you thought all doulas, it was all the same.

And then you were like, well, it was an accident, but it wasn't an accident because this is exactly where I was supposed to be.

And I think that's actually a really good message for everybody who, you know, you feel like, oops, I may have made a mistake or oops, I may have done the wrong thing or even hiring various coaches.

You know, we could easily look at our experience of buying various courses and hiring different coaches for different things and say, oh, I wasted money on this thing or that thing.

But I think there's a real lesson in learning like, okay, we picked up something from them, whether it's, I really like this part or that part is actually something I don't like.

And the way that they do this thing, it's just something that doesn't feel correct for me either way we're learning.

And it's, that's really a big thing I wanted to ask you too about, I know you have, your family has started and have multiple businesses.

So what all are you doing? So, um, I of course have my own private practice where I see those who reside in Nevada, either virtually or in person for therapy.

We also have a family business, which is a party rental business where we rent a whole lot of different items, bounce houses, tables, chairs, phone parties, and different things.

Along with that, I also do a lot of speaking, a lot of consulting. There's just so much that goes on all over the place.

Oh, that's cool. And the concept of not, you don't have to box yourself in Exactly. You don't have to only do one thing.

It's okay to be multi-faceted. It's okay to have different passions, different interests, and to allow money to come into your business from all these different places.

Like you said a minute ago, you know, the business world says you pick your coach and you stay with your coach.

They also say like niche and focus on one thing and dah, dah, dah, but also like, yeah, we're multifaceted. We have different interests and we have different things that we like.

And is it really helpful to limit ourself by only doing the one thing? So I find that super interesting. Um, what I was going to ask you, so you have four kids, right?

Yes. Four. Okay. And so you're doing all of this while raising kids for kids. And so are you going to be bringing more virtual and to your business?

Yeah. Sorry. It's okay. Every time I do podcasts there's plans, I want to come over at my house, But yes.

Um, I, my plan is to do a lot more virtual and be able to, you know, step out of my role as a therapist, you know, as a therapist, we are kind of boxed in meaning, you know, wherever we're licensed is the only state we can see those people for therapy, but you know, there's other ways I can support those who are around the world and I've helped a lot of people around the world to help them through their process.

So for me, right now, the goal is to be more virtual. That's why I signed up for the online business school.

Um, but, um, to bring it so that others are able to get the help that they are needing the support that they're needing, no, I can't give you therapy because I'm not licensed in your state, but I'm able to give you that emotional support via, you know, if it's a masterclass that I'm having in August for doulas to teach them the importance of bereavement and how bereavement does affect your clients, even if you don't realize that, oh, they have experienced a loss or even what are the different types of loss cause miscarriage, isn't the only type of loss that's out there or whether it's, you know, having these other resources online or birthing individuals who have experienced a loss and they're not ready right now to process it.

But, you know, can I have this self paced free resource where I can go on there and understand the stages of grief and have activities I can do to be able to start grieving in a healthy way and realize that grief isn't linear.

We all go through our own journey differently and saying, okay, I'm going to pick the way I want to go about this.

And not the way that society says I should go about this. And I can still talk about it, even though nobody's talking about it.

Um, what would you say if, how, I guess trying to think of how to phrase the question. So how would you recommend somebody if they came to you and they told you what they were working through, what they were dealing with, what they're struggling with, um, what's kind of the, the boundary or, you know, how you, how you decide, okay.

I recommend therapy if I'm not in your state to work with a therapist and I would support them at like, I can be in addition to that, um, emotional support versus strictly like virtual postpartum support.

Yeah. So that's a great question. And you know, it's a thing where as doulas, it's the thing that we kind of always have a thing where we meet clients and we're like, okay.

Yeah, I can help them, but this might be an area I can't help, but I don't understand. So for me, since I have the two hats, I always sit and say, okay, what is it specifically in this moment that this mother needs help with?

Right. We have the baby blues, okay, we've gone past that two weeks. Now we're in this depression, how can we get this mom out of this depression?

So I sit and I analyze it and there's a lot of different, um, tools online. And I help provide those foothills of, Hey, these are free assessments that you can give to your client to fill out.

You can see on there, how they are feeling and things like that. If they are in this range, you do need to send them to somebody, but it's not a, oh, you need to go see this person right now and scare the mom.

No, it's, Hey, I do believe that you may need additional help on top of what it is I'm able to provide.

And here are some resources of different individuals you can go to, to help you. And I will also help you and you know, going to see these individuals and you can come to me and we can process what it is you heard or things like that.

It's not just pushed them in one direction and just leave them high and dry it's, you know, talking with them, supporting them through that process.

Because a lot of clients that have been referred to me from OB GYN, they come in and they're like, is something wrong with me?

What's going on? They told me I needed to come here right away. And I said, have a conversation. And I'm like, you know, yeah, I am seeing that you do have this, but it's not an end all be all.

You're not the only person who experiences the problem is that we just don't talk about it. Yeah. This is true.

And I just felt like I got a flash of talking about it and what that could look like for you in a bigger way.

Um, uh, I feel like I don't want to go into coaching mode. I'll just put this out there in case it's of interest.

I talk about it. Podcasts. Talk about postpartum, like real talk postpartum podcast, just going to put it out there because I agree it, I remember, um, with all three kids, even after my third and I, I did not take postpartum doula training, but I had birth doula training and I had met a lot of postpartum doulas.

And even still after all three kids, I still kind of felt like I wasn't prepared. You know, it's like, you know, some things, but you were still don't tell and nobody talks honestly about it.

Nobody talks honestly. And it's kind of a line between, this is what I found was like, postpartum is complicated and it can be really hard and beautiful and, and, and all of these things, but I felt like it was hard to how do you talk to somebody who's pregnant or who is newly postpartum?

How do you have those conversations without like scaring them or instilling fear or projecting your own traumas onto them? How do we prepare people?

You know? And that could be what you're going to be teaching about in your workshops. So I don't want to, you know, make these answer the whole thing, but to the extent you want to share, I'd be happy to, with whatever you want to share.

Yeah. Um, and one of the speaking engagement workshops, I do, I talk about the power of sharing your story. And the thing I always like to tell other people is that you have to be able to realize yourself first, you need to be able to share that story with yourself and process it for yourself before you try and project it onto somebody else.

Meaning sometimes when we're trying to quote unquote help somebody, we kind of traumatize them in the process instead of trying to help them realize what's coming up for them.

So, you know, if it's grief or if it's postpartum or if it's labor, at least for me and the clients I work with, I just say, okay, well, what is your plan for this?

And if they say what their plan is, I mean, that's a great plan, but have you ever thought about if this was to happen, what would you do that way when not stopping whatever it is that they have planned that they want to do, but we're allowing them to realize that there's more than one way something can go and plans can always not work out.

So I'm like, okay, it's great. You have a plan, but let's look at the vision. I like that. I like that.

And I'm going to take a sip of water real quick. Yep. It's been talking so much. My throat got dry.

Okay. So to me it's like, is this what you're saying is effectively? Well, you get to the point of your own story where you feel like you've kind of neutralize the charge because in the beginning of it, I guess it's that concept of like, not speaking from an open wound.

So the way I've thought about this in the past is like, when things feel really fresh and they feel like an open wound, I generally don't speak about them.

I only decide what I want to share and to the extent, and when, once it reaches a point where it feels more healed and where it feels more neutralized and not like there's gasoline under it, you know?

Yeah, exactly that, Yeah. I like that. That's helpful for me to like click, click it all together. So now for doulas, see, I didn't take postpartum doula training, so I'm not sure how much bereavement conversation there is because that's a totally separate training generally.

I mean, I guess there may be some postpartum trainings that include some bereavement talk. Um, but for your average postpartum doula, are they really getting any bereavement training or enough to really prepare them for how to support people and families through that?

Yeah. From the things that I've seen and I've asked those who are local to me about it, I said, Hey, have you guys had any bereavement and experience or do you guys know what to do if you know, you go and you're helping in postpartum and they've experienced some type of bereavement.

And a lot of them said, no. And then I asked a Sol, a lot of you guys, also our birth doulas too.

Were you guys ever educated on what to do? If the birth ends up going in a different direction? And everybody just looked at me like, oh wow, there should be something that, you know, we should have been exposed to understand because how are we supposed to process that?

And also how we supposed to help support the family as they're going through this at the same time. And it's so important because you're right.

It's not talked about. And it's something that people are afraid to look at, you know, and I get it. And still, we have to be, if, if we are in this industry, you know, we have to be willing to look at it because if the situation ever presents itself, um, knowing, having tools of how to support and how to navigate is probably something that, um, people will forever remember how you help them, you know, during that time.

Yeah. So you are going to teach a bereavement training for doulas and that's coming in August, correct? Yes. So the training is on August 20th.

It is called bereavement for birth pros. And in this training, I'm going to break down the five stages of grief.

I'm also going to explain different types of bereavement that a lot of us aren't exposed to. And then finally, I'm also going to express to you how that can look with your clients and how you can support them the best you can without being a bereavement doula and without getting, you know, certified as a bereavement doula.

Right, right. Cause that is a whole separate training and certifications. And as much as I know, doulos love a good training and certification.

Um, I feel like this will be a great space to begin that journey. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I have to make a note because I feel like I have something for you later on this outside of, outside of the podcast, I'm going to ask you this privately on boxing, that's about your training.

So, and then to bring more postpartum support to more people virtually, which is what you're really starting to kick off, um, especially around given what the news this last week with the Roe V Wade case, uh, that was overturned.

So can you tell me a little bit about how you are navigating that information and turning it into something that you can help people?

Yeah. So after the news broke, there was something like very heavy on my heart. And I was sitting in reflecting and asking, like, what is it that I am able to do at my capacity?

You know, with everything going on to still be able to support those who are in need and the area that I found, I don't want to say lack support, but there's a, the ball's kind of dropped is the support after somebody either, you know, has an abortion or goes through some type of loss.

What support is there out there? Yeah. There's bereavement doulas, but what other support? Cause nobody really knows about bereavement doulas either.

So, um, it actually came from talking to you honestly. Um, I came up with this thing where I will support those who need support and it can be in any capacity in which they would like to support, meaning it could either be in our virtual groups, that's once a month for sending five or it can be, have more access to me where we will boxer throughout the week, Monday through Friday 8:00 AM to 7:00 PM specific time.

And we can just talk about whatever it is you want to talk about. And I will support you emotionally through this process.

And you know, if you need resources or you need access to things or referrals, I'll be able to give those things as well.

So all I really, when I think about how I help, I feel like I'm holding up a mirror so people can see what I see.

You know? So I'll say that. And I think that Voxer support for something like this and anybody who's listening, that isn't familiar with Voxer, it's a free app.

Um, I use a premium, uh, pro I should say a pro version that I paid for. But generally if you're downloading the app, just for something as a consumer, you don't pay for it.

It's a free app and it's like a walkie talkie. So you can leave voice messages back and forth to each other.

And I use it, you know, day and I use it now. I use it with my other clients and members and the level two level three cohort and my private clients.

And so it's just such a magical little app because you can connect. So it's private, it's intimate, it's voice to voice.

It's like being on the phone together, except you don't have a kid like yanking on your ear while you're trying to talk to somebody.

And if you do, they can't see that. Or you can just stop recording hand the kid, the Pirate's booty, and then come back and finish your message.

I mean, really like that's what morning was like today? You know, I was on something and I was boxing. And oftentimes when I boxed you, I'm like, don't sorry, I don't mind the kids in the background.

You know, they're going to scream for a second. I'll be right back. And then I go handle the stuff, do the things.

And I come back and it's, um, it's a way that we, especially, as parents can still support in a way that we can fit into our lives and for people too, because you know, people who would, could need that kind of support come from all walks of life.

True. And one thing I want to add to it though, I think sometimes there's an assumption that the support is only for the birthing individual, but the support is also open to the partners as well because the partner has experienced the loss as well.

They process it differently and you know, sometimes they just want to keep it in and just be like, okay, I'm just going to be tough.

I'm just going to tough it out and keep going. But everybody goes through the same stages of grief, they just experience it differently.

And for me, my first child is angel child and as a bonus child, and I've had to learn how to process that and work with my husband through his anxiety and fears throughout my pregnancy, with my daughter and learning about that and seeing how that projects and things like that.

That's important as well. And I think as doulas, sometimes we forget that the partner also needs more help other than supporting their partner.

They may, may need the support in themselves being able to process whatever it is they need to process. That's such a good point.

I mean, I'm trying to remember if I've heard a single partner share their experience and loss, and I don't think I can remember a single one so far because you're starting to see more and more of the, you know, the pain of the mother or the birthing person share about their loss to brain awareness and bring it into the light and have the open conversations.

But I haven't seen partners do that. There's I think there's one, I can't remember the name off the top of my head.

I don't know if he specifically helps them talk about loss. I know he talks about postpartum, but that's the closest I've seen.

Uh, so basically what we're saying is we need a whole lot of work here. Yes. I mean, I feel like this could be another to the extent that you desire to do that, you know, that you might end up needing more doulas in your business that can specifically support, uh, partners, you know, because you'll be supporting to the extent you can, but like you said, capacity, we all have so much capacity with this type of thing because it's one-on-one and you can't take a thousand people in Voxer.

You can't even probably take a hundred at once. Cause that would be a lot, depending on how much you go back and forth with people.

Um, so this could become something that is really, um, it's so needed this, the amount of trauma that partners are holding and not processing is, is really, um, I can imagine that's just so heavy.

Yeah. It's a, it's a big thing. And, you know, going through the experience of my pregnancy with my husband, because his first born was still born and there was a lot of fear and anxiety.

And then that was put onto me too, but post situation on top of my own fears as well outside of that.

And yeah, it was a lot we have to process and work through. And I also have to understand what were my fears versus his fears that were being projected onto me and you know, us together working through that to be able to now have my talkative opinionated daughter here today.

But you know, just going through that, Oh, I didn't even put all this together until just now. So my dad's first child would have been forties.

Yeah, let me do some math carry the 9 46. My dad's first kid would have been 46 now. And he was a preemie and back 46 years ago, they were in some small town when he worked for carnival was traveling and his wife at the time, not my mother, but his wife at the time wife, number two, I think she delivered premium prematurely and the baby passed away within a couple of days because they just didn't have, it just didn't have the technology and such to support at tiny hospitals 46 years ago.

And I really had never thought about the relationship and how my dad, you know, I don't know that he even knows it doesn't have the words.

I would imagine the older generation, they just don't even have the words for what, you know, what we're doing and what we're talking about.

And it's probably pushed down so deep that, um, yeah, this is really powerful stuff, really powerful stuff. Um, so when you zoom out and you think about Anita and like, I don't want to even give you a time limit.

I was going to say five, 10 years, but when you zoom out and you think like the Anita who is like doing the damn thing, like, what is that, Anita?

What are you doing? Like, what does your life look like? What, what is your business doing and how are you helping?

Like let's zoom out for a minute if that's okay. Yeah. So as I zoom out the way I see myself and my business, my business is called Buda mom.

It's literally my last name spelled backwards. And, um, the way I see it is where a platform where a space, where it's a safe space, where others are able to express these stories and have the words that they want to say.

Um, my favorite quote is from Bernay brown. She says, shame is derived from being unspeakable in our space. You can speak and say what it is you feel you can express yourself.

There's no guilt. There's none of those things. Now, how I fit in under this umbrella is, you know, I see myself traveling internationally.

The world is my home going different places, teaching, showing, helping other people be able to help those. They serve in different ways in under this umbrella of bereavement.

I mean, today we talked about loss, but you know, there's a whole nother story of what I experienced as being a new mom as, um, my son being adopted.

That's a whole other type of loss as a whole nother journey that still falls under there. But you know, helping in all these different realms of loss so that the world is able to have these conversations, we're able to speak about it.

We're able to do what we need to do about it so that, you know, we understand it. One in four people experienced some type of loss and that's not including the one in eight who experience in fertility.

So where would your international travels take you in an ideal world? Whew, that's a good question. Or at least the top three, what would you like the first top three?

I've been a lot of places. So I think the next three places on my list are Greece. Iceland only because my husband's been saying it for the longest.

So that's on the list. And then I would say the third place is going to be somewhere in Africa where exactly.

I don't know, but I'm gonna, even though I've been there and it's my home, it's where my family is from.

I'm gonna just put Nigeria back on there because I want to be able to bring, you know, my people, this information and let them be able to feel a lot more empowered and be able to go from there to be able to help others.

And from there span out throughout Africa and Europe. That's cool. Really exciting stuff. Thank you for sharing. Cause I, I know we didn't talk about that in advance, so I'm like, if you want to share, you don't have to, but I would love to hear a version of that.

Oh, I love it. Okay. I'm trying to think. Do I have any more questions for you? Oh, I do. I have one.

So if you had one tip to share with everybody about how to unschool or decondition what you've been. I know we talked a little bit about it earlier, but deconditioning, what you've led to believe about how you're supposed to do your career or how you're supposed to do business or a really life like postpartum, you know, given what you do for a living, like what would be your deconditioning tip for people about just, that's actually not a true thing.

Um, I would say focus on your energy and your mindset because there's a lot of things and like I boxed you on Friday.

I was like, yeah, I'm thinking about this. And my energy is saying, I should do this. And then when you reach back to me on Monday, I was like, yeah, but I already did all the steps.

Like I already created this. I just went with it. I just know this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

Um, and I think that's where it is. Like, you know, next year, honestly, after COVID every year as a milestone birthday for everybody, but next year, not next year, next month I turned 30 and it's a big milestone.

That's cool. But when I went back and I reflected on life, I'm like, I was just going through doing what other people said you supposed to be doing.

And you know, oh, this is how society associates should do it. This is the direction you should go. You know, this is how being a mom or a scholar should be.

But none of that felt good for me or, you know, aligned with where I was supposed to be or where I thought I was supposed to be until I really sat down, thought about it.

Like, who is Anita? What is it that Anita enjoys? You know, me is travel. I've been traveling since I was two weeks old, all around the world.

So I'm like, I know that's what I supposed to do. That's where I'm supposed to be. And sometimes, yeah, I may not be able to be specifically in your country or in your town or in your state, but that doesn't mean I'm not traveling there with my energy to help support you.

That's really good. And look at all the tools we have now. Like it's not even a barrier to support anymore being in different countries and being thousands and thousands of miles away.

It's not, it doesn't stop anything. Exactly. It's so cool. I was thinking about that the other day. So my dad, who I talk about all the time, clearly he was at the house the other day and he said, oh, you just finished a call.

Um, was she in Canada? And I'm like, oh dad. Cause I had told him at one point that I know a lot of, I have a lot of clients in Canada.

I tend to shout out Canadians if you're here. And like, I, I tend to be popular in Canada. No, like us and Canada is where most of my community is.

And I'm like, actually, and when I thought about it and one day I had a couple of different calls that day.

I had talked to people and had client calls with people in Switzerland, Germany, Canada, New York city, Atlanta. That was like, this is so cool.

I hadn't really thought about it. Then in one day I was connecting with people all over the world. And just like you just said, you know, my energy can be right there and we connect on zoom.

I can see you, we're having a full-on conversation and it's the next best thing to be in the same room together.

Um, yeah. So I love it. And I'm here for it. And is there anything else you wanted to share with people about where to find you?

Of course, and like where's the best place that you'd prefer them to connect with you and where they can get more information if they're a birth professional on your upcoming workshop, but then also if they are just looking for either referring people for bereavement support or for themselves, um, how can we do that?

Yeah. So I'm on Instagram and Facebook. Um, my handle is you to mom HW. So that's U B O M O M H w.

You can also find me on my website, www dot <inaudible> dot com. And if you, um, backslash links, you'll be able to find all the things that I presently have going on.

And you can also schedule console, you know, send me an email. I'm open to all options. Perfect. And I'll share links in the show notes.

If you guys are like driving and listening and you don't have a pen or whatever, I'll make sure there's all links in there so that you can just click through when you get to a safe space and you're not driving.

So you can find the meta. So thanks for hanging out. Thanks for sharing. I love it. I'm excited for our next journey, our next six months together that we officially start next month, but we've already kind of started.

So thanks for hanging out. Thanks for having me. All right. I'll see you later. Bye everyone.